By Leo Babauta

You don’t get this opportunity very often … me debating a productivity giant like Tim Ferriss on one of the most controversial things I write about: having no goal.

Tim and I face off in this no-holds-barred smackdown, and it gets ugly towards the end. I start swearing, and Tim starts crying.

Tim, who just launched his massive new book, The 4-Hour Chef has accomplished an amazing array of goals. He’s a master.

I’ve accomplished a few goals myself, but in the last couple of years have experimented with letting them go. Most people don’t agree with me, and while I’m OK with that, I thought it would be fun to have a debate on the issue.

In this debate, we talk about:

• Goals being a part of Tim’s routine
• Why Leo has experimented with letting go of goals
• What goals are
• How Leo works without them
• The freedom that comes when you let go of goals
• Tim’s dirty secret – he doesn’t disagree with Leo’s no-goals philosophy
• Tim’s view of how people mess up their outlook on goals
• Achievement and appreciation
• Tim’s target for when he sets his goals
• Google co-founder Larry Page’s philosophy on aiming high enough, and partial failure
• What Tim learned from wandering, and why wandering is valuable
• Tim on structure and unstructured time
• Leo on the never-endingness of looking forward all the time
• Self-improvement vs. contentedness
• Tim’s method for when he takes off on an airplane
• Learning to accept flaws as a part of the human condition
• Compulsive goal orientation, as a means of avoidance

If you missed it, also see my other recent interview with Tim, How to Learn Anything.

Watch the video below, or download it here to watch on your iPad/iPhone or later on your computer.

And when you’re done, check out Tim’s incredible book, The 4-Hour Chef.